laskemoona käru

Masinad, millega Eesti mehed sõitsid, lendasid või ujusid ...
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faust
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Postitus Postitas faust » L Juun 02, 2007 11:28 am

Minuarust kuskil internetiavarustel olen silmanud ka sellisedi nagu Kuramaa ratas aga veljel auigud teistsuguse kujuga(ümaramad).
Lisaks sellele jäi silma ka sellised rattad----ülevalt teine pilt.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... triekarren

faust
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Postitus Postitas faust » L Juun 02, 2007 1:51 pm

Väike mõte oleks kärule selline asi taha panna.
Vaatame kuda pilt välja tuleb.

Pilt

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speedsta
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Postitus Postitas speedsta » T Juun 05, 2007 3:05 pm

ugandiklubi kirjutas::wink: Huvitav kas on tegemist sama kärule käinud asjandusega millega sai käru ka hobuse taga vedada ????
Pilt
Vaadates pilte sellel lehel, siis võiks küll arvata, et selle asjandusega võisid hobused moonakäru vedada.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... triekarren

puumuna
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Postitus Postitas puumuna » T Juun 26, 2007 11:41 pm

Sai kiire tripp jalgrattaga tehtud ja Sõrve tipus käidud. Ja seal märkasin, et üks selline käru vedeleb lageda taeva alla ja mädaneb!!! Kas tollel kärul ka omanik on??? Kui ei siis äkki keegi Saaremaa kandi mees võiks räästa alla võtta! Ja säilitada.
Üks pilt ka sellest:

Pilt

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desert eagle
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Postitus Postitas desert eagle » R Juun 29, 2007 10:11 pm

Selle käruga on sellised lood et see on just selle sama kohapeal kuhu ta 60 aastat tagasi jäeti.Ja kuna ta nagu nii on juba läbi omadega las siis olla edasi seal kuhu ta omal ajal jäeti.

faust
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Postitus Postitas faust » E Aug 13, 2007 10:36 pm

Selline küsimus siis teadjamatele, et kas militaarneti Saaremaa aktsioonil sai seesama Sõrve käru ära toodud?
Sõda on elujaatamise kõige aktiivsem vorm.
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brunner
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Postitus Postitas brunner » T Aug 14, 2007 5:10 pm

Vähemalt Ajalootuppa ta ei jöudnud- järelikult siis vanas kohas!
SEESAMA PIDI OMAL KOHAL OLEMA! Ju siis toodi teine.
Viimati muutis brunner, T Aug 14, 2007 9:10 pm, muudetud 1 kord kokku.
Meine Ehre heisst Treue http://sojavaramuuseum.ee/

faust
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Postitus Postitas faust » T Aug 14, 2007 7:18 pm

Küsisin seepärast, et selle artikli lõpuosas nii mainiti.
http://www.omasaar.ee/index.php?content ... artid=3229
Sõda on elujaatamise kõige aktiivsem vorm.
Parem olla kui näida.

faust
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Postitus Postitas faust » L Sept 01, 2007 12:10 am

Selline põhjalik jutt laskemoona kärude kohta. Natuke pikk on aga, kes viitsib see loeb.

INFANTRY TRAILER If8

DESIGN & DEVELOPMENT

One of the many non-motorised items of German wheeled transport in WWII was the Infantry Trailer Jf8. The military requirements that specified the Jf8 trailer are unknown, other armies of WWII had similar trailers but in most of these armies they appeared to have been issued to specialist troops such as paratroopers and commandos, who by the very mode-of-operation would be lacking powered vehicles in any quantity. However this is where the Jf8 differs as it was a widely used item throughout all the German ground forces and was also a very heavy trailer when compared to these other specialist lightweight trailers. It was also used by German paratroopers but that was mainly because they were used as ground troops for most of the war after the battle for Crete in May 1941. The parent company that developed the design is unknown, but it came into existence in early 1941 and can be seen in all theatres of operation during WWII.

The body dimensions of the Jf8 are 1,1m long without towing fitments, 0,95m wide and 0,8m high overall. There is no published evidence as to why the trailer was these dimensions but its internal load dimensions are the same as either six 20 litre Benzine Kanisters (Jerricans) in a 3 x 2 arrangement or 24 of the standard German Patronenkasten 34, the 250 round belted ammunition tin, in a 6 x 4 arrangement.

To some extent the widespread use of such a trailer is a damming indictment of the German automotive industries inability to produce enough motorised vehicles in the light vehicle category. Hence there were not the equivalent trailers existing in the US and British armies, where there were always enough Jeeps, Dodges, 8 and 15 cwts, etc., to do the hauling for the infantry.

This lack of motorised transport was to plague the German forces throughout WWII, they never solved the problem, which is why there were so many of these lesser means of transportation used by the Germans, horses, mules, bicycles, motorcycle sidecars and these infantry trailers All these modes of transport mentioned above were the only help that many German infantry units ever had for equipment haulage and mobility of any form.

FIRST PRODUCTION Jf8 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION

The original design consisted of a full box shaped tubular framework to which all else was attached, and a seam welded steel sheet, five sided box fitted inside the tubular frame to carry the load, this inner box had several strips of wood riveted into its lower half.

The suspension consisted of two trailing arms pivoting in an oil saturated paxoline bearing, the trailing arms were restricted in movement by a single spring loaded telescopic shock absorber each side.

The stub axles supported 9 x 350 rims which could have either pneumatic tyres or steel tyres, the steel tyres were attached to the rims with a rubber strip for some shock absorbency. There were a wide variety of rim designs used, ranging from plain rims to 4, 5 and 10 hole rims. All wheels were of a quick release design, where a spring loaded pin could be pulled and the wheel rim and hub could be detached from the trailer in seconds.

Part of every trailers equipment specification was to have four canvas shoulder straps each with a large spring loaded steel clip at one end. The intention was that at an obstacle, if the trailer had to be lifted, four soldiers each attached a strap to the four loops welded in the corner of each trailer, lifted, and a fifth man removed the wheels. Once the obstacle was cleared the reverse was accomplished. This was some effort, as even an empty trailer weighed approximate 55kg (without its 35kg wheels) and could be a total of 350 kg when fully loaded.

Other standard equipment was a short curved tow bar for trailer to trailer connecting, this was stowed on the front of the trailer and held with two clips. A rear mounted spring loaded tow hook assembly was also fitted. Additionally a T-handled tow bar was available for manual pulling and stored on top of the trailer if not used, being retained by leather straps..

Other equipment was available but not with each trailer, one in four trailers had a tyre pump and inner tube repair outfit.

Additionally there was a set of hafts for towing the trailer with a horse or mule. This was a twin haft arrangement that was approximately 3 metres in overall length, hinged in the middle for easier storage.

All the above interchangeable towing devices were attached at the same point to the trailer, this being a short tube and a single dowel pin.

The only “road lighting” fitted to these trailers was a rear facing reflector. There were no vehicle type lights fitted or provision made for electrical connections. Finally a canvas cover fitted over the top trailer tubes and was attached to several loops welded to the trailer body all round.

MANUFACTURING COMPANIES

The following companies have been identified as producers of complete trailers;-

August Wallmeyer, Maschinenfabrik, Eisenach .
Bayischer Motorwerke AG, Eisenach Werke, Eisenach . (BMW).
von Dietrich & Co. Waggon u Maschinenfabrik, Reichshofen Werke, Elsass.
Erich Hardt, Tischlermeister, Gumbinnen , Prussia .
Fahrradwerke “Bismark” AG, Bergerhof/Rheinland.
Elsassische Maschinenbau AG, Muhlhausen/Elsass. (ELMAG)
Fahrzeug und Geratebau Gmbh, Berlin-Hermsdorf.
Jakob Faulstroh, Press-u-Stanzwerk, Gross/Gerau, Hessen.
Junker & Ruh, Graudenz.
Kronprinz AG, Solingen .
Richard Henkel, Werkzeugfabrik, Viernau, Thuringa.
Schmit, Kranz & Co, Nordhauser Maschinenfabrik, Nordhausen.
L & C Arnold, Werk Schorndorf, Schorndorf, Wurttemburg.
Vosswerke Sarstedt, Sarstedt b/Hannover.
Werner & Pfleiderer, Maschinen und Ofenbau, Stuttgart-Feuerbach.
KBP Gmbh.

There are undoubtedly other manufacturers, additionally rims are known to be manufactured predominantly by Kronprinz and hubs by Pranafa-Werke and Bergische Achsenfabrik.

MANUFACTURING VARIATIONS

There were only two distinct design variations of the Jf8, known as “early” and “late”, the variations were for saving materials and for easier manufacture, but did not alter the original design dimensions or functional use of the trailer.

The major variation between the trailers was the deletion of 80% of the tubular frame, which is virtually every tube below the top tubular frame level, and the use of the existing internal steel box as the new main structure of the trailer. The 20% remaining tubing was round the top lip of the steel box to remain as handles.

This design change would have saved enormously on materials and labour. Within the “late” trailer design, there have been noticed several minor manufacturing differences, where some of the clips holding the box body to the tubular frame changed from riveted to welded. Another difference was around the top edge cutouts of the box body, they were either reinforced with a steel strip edging welded in place, or the same result achieved with a pressed rib running the full length and width of the steel box just below the cutouts. Additionally “late” trailers do not have the wooden battening fitted to the box body floor,

Mudguards were never fitted as a standard, although sometimes field fitted (and probably field manufactured), other trailers also have two mud deflector panels fitted between the rear side of the body and the rear wheels. These deflector panels were an officially issued field modification kit, but are rarely seen.

A point of confusion occurs today with trailers currently fitted with any other wheel and rim designs from that already mentioned, these are undoubtedly post-war innovations, trailers have been seen post-war equipped with wooden spoke wheels, half track wheels, bicycle spoke wheels etc., None appear so far in WWII contemporary photographs or literature.

PRODUCTION FIGURES

This is an area of some estimation , but first of all it is known that this trailer was a seriously mass produced item, and total production has been estimated at least 100,000 by a published source. This huge figure can partially be substantiated by the fact that these trailers were produced for four and half years by at least 16 companies, possibly more, and further substantiated by adding up the serial numbers stamped on existing trailers.

Another published source quotes 38,500 for 1943 and 40,700 for 1944, quantities that match well with the 100,000 total when estimates for the missing years of 1941, 1942 and 45 are included.

TOWING

This trailer was officially designed only for manual or horse drawn motion, but they can be seen in contemporary WWII photos being towed by a variety of vehicle types as needs dictated.

The design of this trailer precludes being towed successfully or legally behind motor vehicles, as it was never equipped with the correct lighting, electrical connections for lighting or mudguards, all which were German civilian and military legal requirements for a motor towed trailer both before and during WWII. Whereas a manual or horse drawn trailer of the time need only have a rear facing reflector to comply with regulations and mudguards were not required either, these same regulations also applied to all towed guns, whatever the towing method.

Additionally the tow hook size is unique to this trailer, its for trailer to trailer connections but it is of a smaller design than the smallest standard vehicle size towing hook.

WWII USAGE & EQUIPMENT VARIATIONS

The trailer was issued for general use by the infantry to carry whatever they wished, and with these trailers their only specified content would be the four lifting straps, tow hook, canvas cover, manual tow handle and trailer to trailer tow bar. However there also many officially specified arrangements;-

ARRANGEMENT 1;- The 1941 D193/1 booklet specifies two connected trailers, the first trailer carries a 5cm mortar barrel, base plate, tool kit, sight and ammunition tins, note that the 5cm mortar was replaced by the 8cm mortar in 1943. The second trailer carries four MG 34 machine guns, spare barrel containers, drum magazines, tool kit and the 250 round ammunition boxes. The MG items were arranged in three layers below the machine guns which, being longer than the trailer, are mounted onto a wooden cradle, secured longitudinally to the trailers top tubing handles. All other normal Jf8 equipment is carried in both trailers.

ARRANGEMENT 2;- A 20th December 1944 specification illustrates two connected trailers, the first trailer carries six 8,8cm PanzerSchreck rocket launchers, they are held longitudinally in place by two wooden cradles mounted at either end of the trailers and secured to the top edge tubing. 18 rounds of wooden boxed rockets are carried within the trailer. The second trailer, unmodified, acts as an ammunition limber for the first trailer and carries a further 30 boxed rocket rounds. All other normal Jf8 equipment is carried in both trailers

ARRANGEMENT 3;- A booklet illustrates two connected trailers for carrying a heavy MG setup. The first trailer is equipped with a tall tubular, high angle MG mount (Lafettenaufsatzstuck 34) and the MG 34, thus allowing the trailer to be used as an anti-aircraft mount, capable of firing the MG and providing protection when on the march. The second trailer carries a folded heavy MG tripod (Lafette 34), secured to the top of the trailer by a wooden framework and clamps. Within the trailers are carried all the usual MG accessories and ammunition. All other normal Jf8 equipment is carried in both trailers.

ARRANGEMENT 4;- A document dated 7th January 1944 specifies the use of an Jf8 trailer to act as the ammunition limber for the 8,8cm Raketenwerfer 43 “Puppchen” . This rocket launcher, mounted on a simple two wheel carriage (the wheels were Jf8 trailer steel rimmed wheels). The same document also mentions both manual and horse drawn arrangements.

ARRANGEMENT 5;-The Jf8 trailer is specified as the ammunition limber for the PanzerBusche 2,8cm taper bore anti-tank gun. The trailer can also have the PzB mounted inside it, in order to raise the firing height, if required.

ARRANGEMENT 6;- Consists of two connected trailers, the first carries the 8cm Morter (sGr W 34) on a wooden framework that is secured to the top tubing of the trailer. Also carried are the baseplate, bipod, sight, tool kit and some ammunition. The second trailer carries ammunition only. All other normal Jf8 equipment is carried on both trailers.

ARRANGEMENT 7;- As part of the breakdown of the 7,5cm Gerbirgsgeschutz 36 mountain gun into eight manually carried and horse/mule towed loads for transportation. Load 2, which is the axle, wheels and trail spades, has the trail spades supported by an Jf8 trailer complete with horse/mule towing hafts.

ARRANGEMENTS 8, 9, 10; 11 and 12 – Field Telephone carrier, Radio carrier, Survey equipment carrier, Medical equipment carrier and a Light Repair Tooling carrier, all using two connected trailers.

PAINT AND MARKINGS

The paint finishes applied to the Jf8 follow the normal vehicle/ equipment paint applications applied across the Wehrmacht. That would be dark grey until April 1943 and dark yellow thereafter, sometimes over-sprayed with brown and green patterns.

Tactical insignia is frequently seen on trailers and is usually indicating infantry units at a troop level (zuge). Also carried on some trailers are a stencilled set of empty and loaded weight figures, i.e. Gew.leer 81,9kg; Tragkr 350kg, one line above the other.


RESTORATION OF INFANTRY TRAILERS

Chassis numbers #179 of 1942 and #1120 of 1943

These two trailers were initially acquired in amongst some very large piles of miscellaneous junk and rusty metalwork surrounding other larger vehicle purchases. Virtually just there to make up weight, which about sums up the general level of interest and understanding of these small trailers.

However as previously stated all equipment has its place in the bigger picture and in recognition of that fact, full restorations were implemented.

The trailers were identified as an early “model” and a “late” model with the following manufacturing data stamped on them, the “early” model was chassis number 179 manufactured in 1942 by Elsassische Maschinenbau A-G (ELMAG) of Muhlhausen, Elsass, today Alsace in France , but at the time of manufacture Elsass was an integral part of the Third Reich.

The second and “late” trailer was chassis number 1120 manufactured in 1943 by Bayischer Motorwerke A-G (BMW) at their Eisenach Werke, Eisenach .

Both trailers had similar problems due to age, weathering and their undoubtedly heavy use post-war as useful general purpose civilian carts, the main differences were that the “early” trailer had its steel cargo carrying box missing, not an uncommon problem as it is a separate item and they are do tend to collect water and corrode quickly. Whereas with the “later” trailer, although the steel cargo carrying box was still there, it being an integral part of the “later” trailer design, but it too had suffered badly from corrosion and some previous restoration attempts.

Otherwise both trailers had the following common problems, seized trailing arm axles, seized telescopic suspension springs, seized tow hook attachments, missing brackets and reflectors, missing trailer to trailer tow bars and attachment brackets, one missing manual tow bar, missing or badly damaged hub fixing studs and wheel rim nuts. Missing tow hooks, and one with missing wheel rims, there were no tyres or inner tubes. Corrosion was everywhere, with the tubular sections being particularly affected due to their thin walls.

A new cargo carrying box was manufactured for the “early” trailer whilst the “later” trailers' cargo box was 80% reused with new metal grafted in to replace the corroded areas. A mixture of new made parts, new bought original items and refurbishment to existing original items finally completed these two trailers back to their original as manufactured condition. Both trailers were repainted as originally manufactured, dark grey (dunkelgrau) for the 1942 model and dark yellow (dunkelgelb) for the 1943 model. There are many constructional differences between the two models, which was due to an ever developing simplification programme as WWII progressed, all these differences have been faithfully retained on these two trailers.

As mentioned in the preceding text, these trailers were often used in pairs to carry specific sets of equipment, and it was decided to follow this process and equip this pair of trailers as per Arrangement 1 with four MG in one trailer but with the later war 8cm mortar variation for the second trailer, and to be typical of a late 1943 equipment arrangement.

To this end the “early” trailer had its exterior surfaces only, repainted dark yellow, as per German regulations for early 1943. Following German WWII documentation wooden supports were built on both trailers for carrying the MG's and the Mortar barrel and tripod. Internally the trailers were fully equipped with all the ammunition boxes specified and the many ancillary items typical for both these weapon systems

SPECIFICATION

Production Dates 1941-45
Total Manufactured 100,000 approximately
Model Type Infantrie Karren Jf8 Manual or horse drawn
Suspension Trailing arm with coil spring dampers
Wheels Pneumatic tyres 3,50-19 or Steel tyres with in-built rubber dampening

Weight Unladen 90 kg
Weight Laden 350 kg
Length 1100 mm plus towing equipment
Width 950 mm
Height 800 mm minimum, higher with some equipment variations
Wheel Track 850 mm
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faust
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Postitus Postitas faust » L Sept 01, 2007 12:22 am

Pildid eelnevas postituses olevate kärude restaureerimisest:

http://sdkfz.com/site/gallery/hand_cart.php
Sõda on elujaatamise kõige aktiivsem vorm.
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LoCo
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Postitus Postitas LoCo » K Okt 24, 2007 8:49 pm

Selline käru oli viimasel Kurtnal müügis. Küsisin mingi hetk, et palju maksab? Rakvere mees ütles, et "praegune hind on 400, kuid lõplik hind kujuneb laada lõpu poole". Küsisin siis, et "400 mida?" Ja sain vastuseks "400 eurot muidugi!!" Keegi teab, kas see käru osteti ära ka lõpuks? :D

Pilt

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divine
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Postitus Postitas divine » K Okt 24, 2007 9:05 pm

Ma nägin Kurtnas peale eespool näidatule veel paari. Mõni oli muidugi vaevu äratuntav roostekäkk.

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Kriuks
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Postitus Postitas Kriuks » N Okt 25, 2007 10:19 pm

LoCo kirjutas:Rakvere mees ütles, et "praegune hind on 400, kuid lõplik hind kujuneb laada lõpu poole". Küsisin siis, et "400 mida?" Ja sain vastuseks "400 eurot muidugi!!" Keegi teab, kas see käru osteti ära ka lõpuks?
See Kurtna hinnapoliitika ikka kohati absoluutne ulme! Vaatan siin, et selle teispoolsusesse lahkunud prantslase IF 8-d ju täiesti samast hinnaklassist :D ...

250/300€

Pilt

500/600€

Pilt

tõnuv
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Postitus Postitas tõnuv » P Nov 11, 2007 5:03 pm

Kahjuks tuli see Sääre käru ka meie õue vedada, sest hakkas teine mandri poole tagasi veerema. Sain raisal veel parklas aisast kinni.
Tõnu

ictta
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Postitus Postitas ictta » E Nov 12, 2007 11:50 am

ohhoo, et keegi tahtis pihta panna??!!

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